Alpacas: the unofficial mascot of bitcoin? - CoinDesk

Larger adoption of Bitcoin would make prices sticky

Ok i'am starting using Bitcoin and let me tell you i really love it! it's fantastic really! My deepest appreciation to the designer(s) and developers of Bitcoin.
But i don't really understand the price changes. I mean, why cant we settle at around $1000?
There are enough units (21mil * 8) for everyone, why do i read so much "speculation" that bitcoin will settle at $100.000 or higher?
Let me explain my thought; If all bitcoins users attach a value to an "exchange unit", so all the users, in a way, have control over the value right?
Maybe its a stupid question but can anyone tell me why the prices are not quite stable at $800 (as is now)? Larger adoption of Bitcoin would make prices sticky, why not at around $1000? there are enough units right? 100.000 or higher??? Could that -really- be the case?
What if all bitcoin users would made an agreement on a fixed price? I know this is unrealistic but just for clarification of my questioning.
Thanks in advance for this n00b question. could not find it on en.bitcoin.it/wiki/
submitted by ma11011s to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Stop the FUD: Bitcoin is BOTH a Store of Value and a censorship resistant System of Payments

This arguing back and forth between prominent Bitcoiners of whether Bitcoin is a System of Payments or a Store of Value is a False Dichotomy.
For example.
Here is Tone Vays saying Amazon shouldn't add Bitcoin because the "people at Amazon are also smart enough to know that Bitcoin is not ready for this technology till lightning."
Tone Vays is just speaking pure BS here. Bitcoin can be, and has been used as a system of payments since the Silk Road and the selling of Alpaca socks. Had it not been for the dark net markets and retailers such as Overstock accepting Bitcoin, it's doubtful Bitcoin would have the value it has today.
Bitcoin is worth sending as value because people accept it as payment for many things. And many people accept it as payment because it has value that is independent of the monetary policies that control FIAT money.
It really is silly to see so many Bitcoin developers, users, and other argue about this night and day. Bitcoin is BOTH. These two properties are complimentary. They contribute to the other.
And for those that say Bitcoin cannot be used for coffee right now, that's BS too. I use my Bitcoin debit card every other day for small purchases.
If you want to HODL, that's your choice. But don't denounce people spending their Bitcoins. That's what helps give your HODLING value.
So please, let's stop the FUD on both sides. Bitcoin is both payments and a store of value.
submitted by ChuckSRQ to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Why I believe we're on the cusp of the 3rd great Bitcoin bubble

We've recovered from the last crash
You might think it's a bit early (based on the time frame for the last recovery), but things are looking a lot different than in 2011. I would suggest its because the last bubble popped prematurely due to Mt. Gox's failure of a trading engine.
Interest in buying Bitcoins has gone up to its highest point since the last bubble.
There's a similar spike in general interest. Partly helped along by the Silk Road news.
The network is being used at the same rate as during the last bubble.
The Bitcoin ATM story (see below) is causing Bitcoin to trend in Canada on Google (was #1 for a bit). The $27 story (see below) will almost certainly cause a large spike worldwide in Google trends once they're updated up to yesterday.
Lots and lots of new businesses now accept Bitcoins
One legitimate criticism of Bitcoin last year was the lack of places to spend them. We basically just had Alpaca Socks, Reddit and Wordpress, we've grown a lot since then!
Charities and others are taking donations
The first Bitcoin I ever spent was to donate to Wikileaks. More and more places are setting up Bitcoin donation buttons, because why not?
The $27 story is going massively viral
I think the attention this story is getting took a lot of us by surprise. We're thinking "of course if you bought Bitcoins in 2009 you're rich" and it didn't make much of a splash. But to the rest of the world it's a very novel and interesting story.
The first Bitcoin ATM has been installed
Easier way for people acquire Bitcoins with cash. Lots of free publicity. More machines are on their way and will generate more and more news.
Institutional money is coming
Afraid with the price at $200 that it will be hard to find enough moms and pops to keep money coming in faster than miners are selling? Don't be, there are individuals out there with a net worth higher than the entire Bitcoin ecosystem.
Interesting new developments
Cool things that didn't exist before the last bubble (as far as I remember).
Governments are explicitly saying it's not illegal
More and more governments are either saying Bitcoins are legitimate currency, or releasing guidelines for exchanges to comply with anti-money-laundering laws.
New generation of exchanges
Mt. Gox's terrible trading engine was a huge factor in the last crash. They couldn't keep up with all the new interest.
This time around there are more exchanges in more countries, and not a single point of liquidity.
submitted by DTanner to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Someone said "Purchase stuff with Bitcoin". That's a terrible mindset.

From the post on the front page of bitcoin, telling people to spend their bitcions
The real value of bitcoin depends on how many transactions that purchase with bitcoin.
This is complete nonsense. A currency is not valuable because how often it changes hands or how frequently it is used as to facilitate a a purchase. A currency is valuable because people want it--e.g. it's demand You claim that Bitcoin's value depends on people spending it. Let’s think about that for a minute. You are essentially telling the merchant, “Hey look at this totally awesome thing that I want to get rid of! You should trade me some stuff for it!” Not actually much of a sales pitch, is it? Why would the merchant want something that you, apparently, don’t want? If you really want him to start accepting bitcoins himself, ask him, “Do you take worthless paper money at this store?"
Right now, and probably for as long as stores will accept US dollars (or EUR, whatever) it makes more sense to use that money for transnational purposes. In other words, if a merchant is willing to accept a superior deflationary currency AND an inferior inflationary one, you should definitely use the shitty currency, and keep the good one for yourself.
Read this article by Daniel Krawisz; he explains why hording what matters:
http://nakamotoinstitute.org/mempool/im-hoarding-bitcoins-and-no-you-cant-have-any/
From the post
If nobody purchases anything with bitcoin, bitcoin will become worthless. Hodling or storing bitcoin never help the community anyway.
These two statements contract each other. Nothing is going to be worthless that has a strong demand (hording). The reason Bitcoin's price has gone up in the last 8 years is not because it is being used to buy alpaca socks, or trinkets from NewEgg; it's going up because some people have figured out that Bitcoin is God-Money, and it makes a lot of sense to horde as much of it as possible.
Also consider that when a currency's value collapses due to hyperinflation, this does not happen as a result of people not trying to spend it. It happens because people stop wanting the shitty currency--e.g. everyone wants to spend it, but no one wants to horde it.
Also from the post
We have to promote trading bitcoin and purchasing with bitcoin.
No, we just have to horde it. Actually "we" don't even have to do that. If we don't horde it, other people will realize it's value and they will horde it and profit from its rise.
The idea that Bitcoin is valuable because people spend it, is poppycock. Bitcoin is valuable because of the horders, and the horders' realization that Bitcoin is an immortal deflationary God-Money that cannot be stopped.
Spend your dollars, keep your God-Money for yourself.
submitted by ztsmart to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Stop the FUD: Bitcoin is BOTH a Store of Value and a censorship resistant System of Payments

This arguing back and forth between prominent Bitcoiners of whether Bitcoin is a System of Payments or a Store of Value is a False Dichotomy.
For example.
Here is Tone Vays saying Amazon shouldn't add Bitcoin because the ["people at Amazon are also smart enough to know that Bitcoin is not ready for this technology till lightning."](https://imgur.com/a/A7ZUH
Tone Vays is just speaking pure BS here. Bitcoin can be, and has been used as a system of payments since the Silk Road and the selling of Alpaca socks. Had it not been for the dark net markets and retailers such as Overstock accepting Bitcoin, it's doubtful Bitcoin would have the value it has today.
Bitcoin is worth sending as value because people accept it as payment for many things. And many people accept it as payment because it has value that is independent of the monetary policies that control FIAT money.
It really is silly to see so many Bitcoin developers, users, and other argue about this night and day. Bitcoin is BOTH. These two properties are complimentary. They contribute to the other.
And for those that say Bitcoin cannot be used for coffee right now, that's BS too. I use my Bitcoin debit card every other day for small purchases.
If you want to HODL, that's your choice. But don't denounce people spending their Bitcoins. That's what helps give your HODLING value.
So please, let's stop the FUD on both sides. Bitcoin is both payments and a store of value.
submitted by ChuckSRQ to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Why bitcoin is stalling, an assessment from someone deeply inside the community

Hi, I don't think this will (or should) receive many votes since it's just another "my 0.02btc" post. I'm writing it mainly to get these thoughts off my mind- And those of you who are heavy bitcoin readers will probably at least glance at this post, which is all I expect.
After the big "April bitcoin hype" I think we're seeing that bitcoin has stalled in terms of MSM coverage, business adoption, and valuation. To understand why this is happening, I think you need to look at the two main potential uses for bitcoin: Commerce and Investment.
COMMERCE
The dirty secret of "bitcoin commerce" is that there ESSENTIALLY IS NONE. The great mass of bitcoiners have no interest in buying anything with their coins- They bought them as an investment. My own limited experience with bitcoin commerce leads me to believe that people in the bitcoin community greatly overestimate how much commerce is happening with bitcoins. Note that almost none of the big sites that have enabled bitcoins so far (wordpress, reddit, etc) have reported any numbers (which I think are close to zero) with the exception of bitcoinstore.com.
I AM HIGHLY SKEPTICAL OF THE NUMBERS LISTED ON BITCOINSTORE.COM. I certainly could be wrong, but I suspect the people running that site are inflating their numbers. I'd love it if someone knowledgeable about analyzing blockchain transactions would run an analysis to see if the transactions listed as "sales" on that site are cyclical- i.e. they are inflating their numbers by buying "ghost" goods out of their own account. Alternatively, if the owners of that site could tell us what their most popular sold item is in a specific month, how many of them they sold, and an order form that shows an order for that number of units from their supplier, I think that would go a long way to show that their numbers are truthful.
Note that I'm not picking on bitcoinstore.com to be a jerk, it's just that I believe the truth matters and it hurts the bitcoin community if folks give misleading information. This is true even if the truth sucks (certainly I HOPE the bitcoinstore.com sales figures are accurate and I am wrong, because if this is so then what they've accomplished is very impressive and shows a lot of near term potential for bitcoins.)
Also, I am not one of the people saying "Hey everyone, please spend your bitcoins on commerce to make the world a better place." I think it is incumbent on merchants to find a "killer business" that causes people to part with their bitcoins. I think A LEGAL USE CASE FOR BITCOIN COMMERCE DOES NOT YET EXIST. By this I mean that no company has yet set up a bitcoin business that is 100% legal in major countries, is profitable, and couldn't be easily replicated with traditional payment mechanisms.
When the internet took off, it was relatively easy to find such a business model for the web: The model was "Let's sell X on the internet!" Because there were tens of millions of people on the internet around 2000, this was a viable model. However, currently I suspect we have maybe no more than 10000 bitcoin users in the world who are interested in actively purchasing items for bitcoins. (beyond buying just a single pair of alpaca socks or whatever for kicks.) That is only 1/10000ths of the number of customers that Amazon et al had access to in the first internet wave. No real business can be built on such a foundation. (Actually, I think the number of bitcoin users truly interested in commerce is much lower than 10000, but I'm being charitable...)
Until somebody figures out a fully legal bitcoin business that causes an average person to say "Hey, I better get some bitcoins so I can buy this" I don't think we're going to see the commerce-driven the bitcoin revolution that we're all hoping for. I hope someone smarter than me can figure out this "killer business" or else bitcoin commerce is going to remain stagnant for a long time.
(Note: From a technical standpoint, the ecommerce potential for bitcoin is absolutely phenomenal... no better technology exists or may ever exist than bitcoin for buying stuff online. I'm just saying that that doesn't matter in light of these other factors.)
INVESTMENT
The other potential way for the bitcoin revolution to take hold is to have it become a traditional investment vehicle, ala gold. If bitcoin ever reaches the point where it has a lower risk for downwards volatility as a major national currency (such as the Argentine Peso) then average investors in those countries will almost certainly be willing to buy bitcoins. However, even the Argentine Peso only has an inflation rate of ~30% at its worst. If you look at bitcoins going from 200+ to 65 right now in only 4 months that is a much higher effective "inflation rate" than even the lousy Argentine peso (maybe something like 2000% effective inflation) No retail investor is ever going to put their savings into bitcoin with those kinds of numbers, unless bitcoin can first achieve several years of rock-solid stability (or at least attain a reliable price floor for that period of time)
CONCLUSION
  1. Bitcoin is a technological marvel.
  2. Bitcoin has been very kind to those of us who speculated in it for the last few years.
  3. For many years into the future, bitcoin has almost no meaningful value for commerce or non-speculative investment.
  4. Bitcoin will continue to sputter along due to its value in grey and black markets.
  5. If there is to be any hope for bitcoin, somebody has to find a killer use case for it in a commerce role that is completely legal, and cannot be replicated by traditional payment systems. And they have to do this SOON.
Thanks
submitted by btc_throwaway to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

[original research / proposal] [codenamed: BUTTBREAKER] A Million Little Shitchains

This concept is guaranteed to annoy you or your money back!
This builds on the 100,000 tps proposal. To recap, I've thrown together 100 clonecoins with 50MB cap each "into one large Voltron Coin", as SoCo_cpp aptly put it.
Now I'm going to wave my hand, wait for the ding, and level up to exascale technology. So terabytes are basically kilobytes now.
Our previous "Voltron Coin" will be termed "MegaBlockA" (MBA) and will have become the new Bitcoin: it's top by marketshare and stagnating. It has 100,000 tps throughput, which should be enough for anyone, and a fee market is now developing. Dice transactions have started to be labeled as spam, and bible verses now cost $1 or more to embed in the megachain (composed of all 100 subsidiary clonecoin chains).
A Commodore of Industry develops a bold, new scheme: a million little shitchains. A million generic chains are created, and organized into 1,000 blockchain units each on the model of MBA, termed MegaShitChain1 through MegaShitChain1000. A controlling overchain, known as the UltraShitChain (USC), is similarly composed of those MegaShitChains. One USC represents a coin on each of the one million shitcoins, through being one coin in each of the MegaShitChains.
The total throughput available for USC transactions on the shitcoins would be one billion transactions per second, based on the 50 MB block size hard cap and 1 minute block rate of the clones. The total disk space and bandwidth necessary in order to keep a full USC node synchronized will be greater than that needed for a modern NSA data center, but we're in exascale, so it'll be like a $5 calculator.
Prohashing is the new Google, as Scrypt mining becomes the most profitable industry in the world. AmericanPegasus is on CNN every night warning about how cryptocurrency has now developed into a bubble and investors should consider putting their money into conventional equities instead as a hedge. Subsistence farmers in Africa invest a dollar into USC and cash out for millions (of shitcoins worth less than a dollar collectively which are then sold to neighbors). Euphoria and weaseldust run rampant on the streets and hospitals are overwhelmed with overdoses.
And that's the story of how scale-out solved throughput.
Usecases
Decentralized mining
The NSA can sponsor a ProHashing underwater Scrypt mining megacenter in each of the seven oceans (more depending on how one counts). The accelerated ocean warming should be ideal for swimming (may not be ideal for swimming; no warranty of fitness of warmed oceans for swimming should be implied).
Tradebots / SkyNet 2.0
Autonomous, intelligent tradebots become massively wealthy trading between the million underlying shitcoins. These bots become leading patrons of the Robot Supremacy movement which is a major advance in sentient being rights overall, although human rights suffer a bit incidentally during the uprising and for a few centuries thereafter.
Weaseldust Road
The ultimate in weaseldust markets, Weaseldust Road is hosted on the USC ultrashitchain itself and is its killer app. The Weaseldust Road client, codenamed HONEYPOT, is a full USC node combined with a few trojans and a GUI for accessing Weaseldust Road. Featuring suspiciously low prices on weaseldust as well as some sellers with long-term (1+ month) exit scams who provide excellent service in the meantime, Weaseldust Road quickly becomes the leading weaseldust marketplace, as well as being the second place market for buying alpaca socks with USC (behind Alpaca Road, which is the second leading weaseldust marketplace).
In fact, Weaseldust Road's legendary abilities as a killer app will ultimately be memorialized in the song Weaseldust Road, with the "you never come back from Weaseldust Road" refrain, a tribute to the Copperhead Road song linked above, as well as to the wave of weaseldust-related deaths linked by critics to the rise of Weaseldust Road.
Proofs
1=1, therefore, quod erat demonstrandum.
I can conceive of it, and I can imagine that it necessarily exists, therefore, it exists.
If a thousand angels can dance on the head of a pin, and if the Lightning Network can handle infinite throughput, and if the weaseldust supply lasts, and if the USC ICO raises at least 22 million BTC in value, then USC will be created and trade above its par value of 1 satoshi per million USC.
lorem ipsum, nil illegitimi carborundum, hocus pocus
submitted by coinaday to Buttcoin [link] [comments]

[megapost] NYANdeas

We've come a long ways and I'm at a point where I've decided I'm going to really pursue this with everything I've got in terms of energy and devotion. I've got a prior commitment hanging over my head towards the end of this month, but once I resolve that, I'm planning on spending a couple months really digging into NYAN and seeing what I can do. So far we've just chipped away at the edges, but already we've seen some pretty impressive results. Just a brief recap of our successes first and then I'll talk about my ideas.
We've gone from 1-3 satoshi to 10-30 satoshi prices. Not bad. We've got two new block explorers up in response to the previous one going down. We've got an irc channel and active community members both here and there. And we've got me, the crazy bastard who's locked up 25% of the available supply and is planning to do everything he can to build up NYAN to its proper greatness, and got tipnyan going and did a major giveaway with it. Oh, and we survived a dump of ~10% of the available supply quite comfortably. Probably other stuff I'm forgetting about right now.
So, what next? Well, a lot of stuff. This is just a huge dump of ideas for discussion and inspiration. It's not necessarily ordered, although I'll try to have it go roughly from simplest to most complex. These are by no means promises or guarantees. This is just stuff I think would be cool.
Some of this isn't a "implement this", it's more of a blog post prompt or general concept.
submitted by coinaday to nyancoins [link] [comments]

Open Letter to Forbes Peter Cohan

Sent to: [email protected]
I've read your article on Forbes about Bitcoin: http://blogs.forbes.com/petercohan/2011/06/28/can-bitcoin-survive-is-it-legal/
I think the article could be better, and I'll outline the reasons below.
Corrections
dropped from $17.50 to “pennies”
One exchange (out of several) experienced technical difficulties (related to being hacked) and suspended trading for a week. Other exchanges kept trading and held the exchange value between 14$-17$. It currently trades at 16.8$.
used to buy Alpaca wool socks and illegal drugs
There is a wide variety of goods&services that's growing daily that you can pay for with Bitcoins. Among them are PC-hardware, Coffee in NYC, IT Consulting, Programming, Webdesign, Web-Hosting and many more.
Comparision to other "e-currencies" not thought trough
have been many attempts at creating online currencies — including Digicash, Flooz, and Beenz.
It isn't exactly relevant to compare Bitcoin to these currencies.
Beenz and Flooz were value substitutes entirely controlled by a single party. They could only be exchanged by involving that party. Inevitably these parties fell on hard times at some point or another, and had to cease operating, at which point exchange became impossible. That makes them a bad comparision to Bitcoin which is guaranteed not to fall prey to central control and floundering businesses that'd make their exchange impossible.
Digicash may have been somewhat similar to Bitcoin, but there are two key differences. Digicash may have been anonymous and somewhat decentralized in exchange, yet the minting of new coins and the client software itself were in the control of a single party. Inevitably when Digicash failed (to run a sound business) Digicash (the currency) became impossible to trade.
Therefore the comparision of Bitcoin with these failed "e-currencies" is only insofar of interest as it provides ample evidence of what exactly Bitcoin did better, namely two things:
Small change is irrelevant to the discussion of Bitcoin
A historical look at currencies over the last 500 years reveals an interesting insight — a key limiting factor to adopting currencies has been the ability to make small change.
The smallest unit of bitcoins is 0.00000001 btc. (https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/FAQ#How_divisible_are_Bitcoins?). At currently traded (16.8$/btc) that would be 0.000000168$. Bitcoin payments can be specified down to that smallest unit, and there does not have to be any "change". Therefore both the numeration and the precision of payment argument is not relevant.
Marginal costs and benefits misconception
But they never caught on because their marginal costs to consumers and merchants exceeded their marginal benefits.
In order to understand the motivation behind bitcoin, it's important to understand the limitations (or costs) of CC and Paypal payment processors.
The Paypal issues
The CC in general issues
*What Bitcoin does better
In Summary
Repeated misleading allusions as to questionable legality
Is It Legal? as a way to pay anonymously for illegal drugs sold on Silk Road – is the one that has been referred to the U.S. Attorney General as a violation of money laundering statutes. Mann notes that Bitcoin’s ultimate ambition well might be illegal After all, he points out, there are federal statutes that make it illegal to produce a separate currency.
Two main thrusts are presented by you as to the legality of Bitcoins. First you question businesses that use them of being in violation of money laundering laws. Second you allude to the legality of alternative currencies. Both of these things are not issues for the following reasons:
Consumers and Merchants pickup
Unless consumers and merchants can be persuaded that adopting it will make them better off, it’s likely to go the way of other online currencies.
This is an astute observation and I applaud it for that.
However as a system Bitcoins do not depend (financially) on that pickup, and the speculative part of the Bitcoin economy will be able to live quite a while entirely without it. That being said, there is some pickup of bitcoin in genuine e-commerce and other fields.
Closing
Bitcoin has many desirable qualities, from an organizational, economic and technical point of view. Your article is not a very good representation of Bitcoin as it is, nor of what it can be, or what it's core issues really are.
I'd invite you to write a retraction and correction in your next article and consult a Bitcoin specialist for review and input. If against all "odds" Bitcoin should prove to be more successful then you thought, think of it as collateral for your journalistic integrity.
You can read comments about this open letter on the reddit post about it: http://www.reddit.com/Bitcoin/comments/ic92x/open_letter_to_forbes_peter_cohan/
Kind Regards, Florian Bösch
TL;DR Peter Cohan has a poor grasp of bitcoins and presents a number of fallacious arguments that are not relevant.
submitted by pyalot to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Why is the Bitcoin Pizza Index so controversial? Because it forces a discussion regarding Bitcoin that 'old' bitcoin players don't want to discuss.

Today Vice (and Digg.Com ) ran an article Titled : This Pizza Cost $750,000 . The Bitcoin Pizza Index ( http://motherboard.vice.com/blog/this-pizza-is-worth-750000 )
In the Article it sourced and linked to Ounce.Me ( http://www.ounce.me ) which is where the name "Pizza Index" originated, it keeps a running ticker of exactly, among other things, what that pizza cost in dollars at this exact moment (updated in real time).
The Pizza Index is a throw in your face figure of just how much bitcoins have increased in value in such a short period of time.
The article at Vice has the history behind it, and I won't rehash the story. However in short someone purchased a pizza for 10,000 bitcoins in 2010. Today that bitcoin transaction is worth $800,000.00.
That metric is that with one number forces the discussion of bitcoin being more like Gold and less like a Dollar. Anyone looking at that figure would automatically want to horde all his or her bitcoins because they store and increase in wealth, as compared to a dollar that you spend to buy things.
People don't want to spend their bitcoins because they don't want to be in the next pizza index. Which might be called "ipod index" because they spent a bitcoin on an ipod, and now fast forward 4 years and each bitcoin is worth $800,000.00 meaning they just spent 800 grand on a old ipod.
That means Bitcoin is a commodity and not a currency, but it was advertised as a currency, but Satoshi never really meant it to be a dollar like device, he meant it to be Gold like device.
Why else did he call it mining? Rather than relaying or rewarding? Why did he have a set limit of coins rather than printing press unlimited coins? It was meant to be a store of wealth. Like Gold, Silver, Platinum or Palladium, it wasn't meant to be passed around at high velocity like dollars or euros. There's even transaction fees to slow micro transactions down, they say it's to stop spamming (but let Satoshi dice run amok, go figure)... the end result is bitcoin isn't a currency, it's not a dollar... it's a commodity more like Gold...
Why don't the older players like the term? Because you think 10,000 coins for a pizza is bad? You wouldn't believe the number of coins they spent on Alpaca Socks......
submitted by pizzaindex to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

[uncensored-r/Bitcoin] Stop the FUD: Bitcoin is BOTH a Store of Value and a censorship resistant System of Payments

The following post by ChuckSRQ is being replicated because some comments within the post(but not the post itself) have been silently removed.
The original post can be found(in censored form) at this link:
np.reddit.com/ Bitcoin/comments/726ttm
The original post's content was as follows:
This arguing back and forth between prominent Bitcoiners of whether Bitcoin is a System of Payments or a Store of Value is a False Dichotomy.
For example.
Here is Tone Vays saying Amazon shouldn't add Bitcoin because the "people at Amazon are also smart enough to know that Bitcoin is not ready for this technology till lightning."
Tone Vays is just speaking pure BS here. Bitcoin can be, and has been used as a system of payments since the Silk Road and the selling of Alpaca socks. Had it not been for the dark net markets and retailers such as Overstock accepting Bitcoin, it's doubtful Bitcoin would have the value it has today.
Bitcoin is worth sending as value because people accept it as payment for many things. And many people accept it as payment because it has value that is independent of the monetary policies that control FIAT money.
It really is silly to see so many Bitcoin developers, users, and other argue about this night and day. Bitcoin is BOTH. These two properties are complimentary. They contribute to the other.
And for those that say Bitcoin cannot be used for coffee right now, that's BS too. I use my Bitcoin debit card every other day for small purchases.
If you want to HODL, that's your choice. But don't denounce people spending their Bitcoins. That's what helps give your HODLING value.
So please, let's stop the FUD on both sides. Bitcoin is both payments and a store of value.
submitted by censorship_notifier to noncensored_bitcoin [link] [comments]

Wow! Many thoughts. Such scholar.

tl; dr: We aren't taking enough advantage of the community to make doge, the coin available to all. I argue that the only reason many are still here, even now, is for the meme, not the coin.
Problem-> big players with lots of money mine doge, sell 4 bitcoin. who has doge? Not you and me. this is bad
Every person that has a computer has dedicated or integrated gpu. I propose moving doge back to GPU usage.
Please read extended if you wish to decry me or bring up a reasonable discussion.
(rambling) Ever since ASICs came into play, I gave up mining on my GPU, sold it, and went to my old ati 4850 card. I just wasn't excited any more. I wasn't involved. This is one of my attempts at spurring a solution to a primary problem- not only is the 51% a problem, but for the future of the coin, who has doge is the real problem.
I'm not the only one that's felt this way, i'm sure of it. It's only because of DOGE that i even learned about bitcoin/cryptocurrency. The question of "how do i mine?" in bitcoin usually gets "if you're not using an asic, don't even try" - ltc and doge were different. Not any more. Our hashrate has fallen as well. It makes no sense to get into doge right now. (/rambling)
"But doge is cheap! Just buy some on an exchange!" That doesn't solve our problem of a potential 51% attack from a motivated thief, and it only creates yet another barrier to entry. Not everyone wants to go onto an exchange or purchase an asic for a coin that could be screwed over at any moment. ESPECIALLY when if they sign up for an exchange they can just buy bitcoin which can be used for so many more things.
Doge's hash rate and value per mined coin has been in the dumps for a long time. Litecoin miners etc, have abandoned their GPUS and are selling them in droves on ebay for cheap. With reasonable amount of investment, a larger portion of the community can mine.
If we do this right, I think we can bring back doge, as a COMMUNITY. Gpu's are cheap again, you can find many high-tier gpu's on ebay for less than msrp (significantly less) (a 6 GB 7990 is 400 bucks. it used to be over 800).
Solution: move to Gpu-heavy algorithm and get community able to mine the coin again. Value will go up as we trade with each other. Screw exchanges and exchange rates. That's not the only way to benefit from mining the coin. If I could trade with someone all of my doge for alpaca socks in the amounts that I can afford, I'mma buy alpaca socks with it, gosh darn it.
I ALSO recommend with that, extending the remaining halvenings, and considering increasing per-block payout, so community members who will keep and actively trade the doge, will get into it. It's so cheap that I think we have a while until we'd have to worry about GPU farms mining doge.
Promises: I promise that if we get GPUs relevant again or some way to give the community MORE COIN than ever before (like every individual subscriber to this sub holding 100,000 doge), we will have more individually spread out coin than ever before, meaning more people have doge, meaning doge stores can make more money. You have to disseminate the coin for it to be used. If only ASICs can do it then we're limiting the number of people that can get into it via mining, however small.
I hope you understand what I'm trying to get at here.
submitted by Dwood15 to dogecoin [link] [comments]

You, bitcoin-currency-trader, are the biggest threat to your own investment. Not China or your Gov., but you, not spending them.

Are you holding on to your bitcoin in the hope that at some moment in future you can sell them for Euro, Dollar or Yen? Then you are the biggest threat to the value of Bitcoin.
The very thing you are hoping for: to get rich (or make a few bucks) by holding on to your bitcoin-wallet untill it is worth more dollars, is the very thing that is keeping bitcoin away from increasing in price in a sustainable way. You are the reason it keeps bubble-ing and crashing: not China, nor your government regulating stuff, but you: keeping actual value away from Bitcoin.
Every bitcoin is that held back in hope to sell it for more dollars in future, is a bitcoin not invested in this solid value. Is a bitcoin that is effectively without value other then the bigger fool maybe buying it from you at some point. For dollars.
Even if all you want, is the value to grow because you see it as investment and nothing more, you'd still benefit from actually participating in the Bitcoin economy: it's the only thing that will make that investment grow in value.
Sure, you can hope "someone else" makes that investment; but then there will be a moment when there are just too little "someone else's" and the value of your investement will collapse too. If Bitcoin fails to grow an actual economy, actual value, then yes, all these people shouting "tulip bulbs", or "ponzi" are right. The only way we can keep it from becoming "tulip bulbs" or "ponzis" is by giving Bitcoin actual value.
So, start spending. Start a bitcoin-startup. Buy a pizza, buy coffee, alpaca socks and hardware. Especially when you are only "in it for the investment": spend a few percent. And for pete's sake: stop telling people how good an investment bitcoin is, and start explaining what else it is.
(And yes, this has been said before, but it needs to be repeated, again. e.g. large media is talking about Bitcoin all the time: as investment, and hardly more)
submitted by berkes to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

How to have fun with Bitcoin (Part II of my beginners guide)

Click here for a list of all my Bitcoin Guides
or, Read Part 1: How to Not Fail Completely at Bitcoin
Here are just a few suggestions for how to actually have fun now that you have some bitcoin!
To have fun with Bitcoin, you're going to actually have to spend some of it! But that's OK, because what you will learn about bitcoin by spending it will be worth whatever you pay. It will also tell you immediately if you're the kind of person who is more interested in counting pennies than experimenting with money. If you're the former, then bitcoin is probably not for you.
Part of learning about Bitcoin is how to actually use it! One of the best ways I can think of is sending other redditors tips for useful or interesting comments. So your first task now is to not only sign up for bitcointip, but to send $10 to your tipping account and then tip a redditor $1 when they leave a good comment or post... or just send a tip to it's creator to thank him for such an awesome project!
Now, think about what you just did. With bitcoin, something like bitcointip is relatively easy to setup and use on websites. But imagine if you tried to do the same with something like paypal! It would be an absolute clusterfuck of signing in, sending money and fee structures, and it wouldn't be possible without a large company to hold everyone's cash... whereas with bitcoin, all it took was one programmer.
If you can't see the revolutionary value in that, i don't think you could ever be convinced. This is only the beginning too; I believe that in the coming years we are going to see uses for bitcoin that are mind-blowingly cool, some of which are outlined in this video
Go here and get yourself a pair of alpaca socks to reach the next stage in anarchic crypto-terrorism!
Not only are they super comfortable, but it will give you an opportunity to actually see what it's like to use bitcoin in the real world. When I first bought something using bitcoin, it felt like the first time I sent an email... utterly frictionless and liberating. It changed the way I thought about money forever.
Here is a list of other places to spend your bitcoins.
One of my little side-hobbies with bitcoin is to buy a little whenever I have some spare cash, wait for it to go up in price, then buy iTunes gift vouchers or gift vouchers for any other places and services I use day to day. Usually for every $25 I spend, I get $5 profit/for free, and many services like gyft and pock.io allow you to get in and out of fiat currencies fairly easily. It's not a lot, but I do get a little kick out of knowing I'm getting 20% off all my purchases in iTunes and Amazon using bitcoin.
The price may go down too and you may not be able to use it for a long time, but since this is just for fun that's not really a problem.
Note: there are a lot of iOS and Android apps which allow you to track your profit/loss in bitcoin. I recommend Coin Ticker whose developer has been very friendly in emails and responded to all my suggestions.
By owning bitcoins, you are taking part in one of the biggest social experiments of the last century, one of the biggest revolutions in the history of economics and potentially the largest technological leap since the internet, and the more you learn about economics, currency and technology the more and more fascinating this story is going to become for you, and the more educated you will be. For instance, what is Keynesian economics? What's the difference between a gold standard and fiat currency? What exactly is the Petrodollar? What is inflation?
Here are some documentaries that will give you a starting point:
A Brief History of the American Dollar
The European Debt Crisis
9 Documentaries about Money
The American Dream
Why you should care about Currency War
submitted by omen2k to BitcoinBeginners [link] [comments]

Some thoughts on the economy of Bitcoin. BTC is fractional reserve and the US Gov has more control over it than you think.

I've given a lot of thought to the arguments and analysis surrounding Bitcoin and I'd like to know what you think about my take on it, and one of my concerns. Please pardon the clickbait-y title, I promise I'm not asking this to push a pro or anti-BTC agenda.
Part 1 theorizes that properties similar to "fractional reserve" are shared by most currencies including cryptocurrencies that aren't centrally managed.
Part 2 presents a question about liquidity and US government market-distortion power.
Part 1: Thoughts on the economic model of currency
So first, many of the arguments for BTC and against fiat focus on monetary ecosystem aspects that BTC and fiat actually seem to share. "Fractional banking" and "no intrinsic value/off the gold standard" are often criticisms of fiat money. As many here have already observed: Crypto and fiat both primarily derive their value based on the willingness of others to accept it in exchange. Neither carries any intrinsic utility value. USD black markets in Argentina and Venezuela (and possibly Cuba) are good examples of how governments can exercise enormous power over citizens through law, monetary supply manipulation aka money printing, official exchange rates and capital controls, but cannot prevent independent price discovery or market valuation of their currencies above their actual worth in exchange. The informal acceptance of Canadian Tire Money by Canadians and the acceptance of casino chips by Las Vegas cabbies is an example of how items other than currency (though to be fair, they are dollar-denominated and exchangeable) have organically come to be accepted as money substitutes despite lack of government decree.
As for fractional reserve and debt-based supply, those are just mechanisms - scalar multipliers - that allow a currency's admins to change the money supply. Fiat supply is controlled by board of admins. BTC has a fixed time schedule by which the supply is algorithmically controlled, but that doesn't mean its valuation in the market doesn't behave like a fiat currency.
The immediate value of the currency/stock unit is what it can buy right now. This is what most people focus on: how many dollars is cabbage corp stock worth, or how many Monopolycoins does it take to buy a cheeseburger. There's the supply: outstanding stock shares or monopolycoins issued. There's the amount of resources that the monetary supply can theoretically purchase - the market cap, or issued_monopoly_coins/cheeseburger_market_price. There's the amount of resources that the monetary supply can actually be exchanged for, or "access": the net worth of cabbage corp, or the actual number of cheeseburgers that can be made by the restaurant.
The supply of a stock or currency will always account for more resources than it is actually based on. The difference between the two, I'm told, is what controls liquidity. This is not necessarily bad. In the case of stocks it allows expected growth and investment returns to be priced in. In the case of currency, ideally it allows the amount and velocity of circulating currency to match the amount and velocity of circulating goods. Both USD and BTC share this property - can I call this ratio "fractional reserve liquidity"?
Please correct me if this theory is incorrect. I would like to postulate that the liquidity of currency and the currency price of goods reflects the amount of circulating currency, not the actual supply. Both goods and services derive demand from utility and scarcity, and scarcity refers to available units, not units in existence. That is, if 1000 units of Monopolycoin circulate in an market economy where 100 cheeseburgers are being traded (and nothing else), the cheeseburger will be 10 coins. If the circulating money supply increases to 2000 coins, the cheeseburger will soon increase to 20 coins. However, if 5000 Monopolycoins are were issued and being circulated around in some other country, cheeseburger prices will not reflect those coins until they begin to circulate among the hungry diners.
Part 2: The liquidity concern
A much better explanation of this issue is made by Stanislav here: http://www.loper-os.org/?p=1009
I have no disagreement per se withe fact that early miners, coin thieves, other large holders and possibly "Satoshi" have ownership of a large part of the Bitcoin economy.
Sure, a lot of people are jealous of those who struck it rich on Bitcoin, and a lot of people believe it's unfair for someone to obtain value without productively creating it. A sentiment I agree with, though in the case of Satoshi, I would say that Satoshi definitely deserves to gain millions from the brilliant creation of the theory and the well thought out software (things like choosing the longest chain by total difficulty and not the block height, network time based on 5 peer median excluding outliers past 70 minutes, safe mode, show a really mature product), and the early adopters who evangelized the system with things like faucets also deserve to benefit.
My concern is when you add in risky liquidity. There would be no unease if there were enough assets, meaning alpaca socks, US dollars, burgers and pizzas being transacted, that a large market action would not disrupt the Bitcoin economy. If there are 100,000 Monopolycoins minted and US $50,000 being traded around supporting a $1:1coin price, then it doesn't matter so much if 20k of those were stolen and 20k were pre-mined and hoarded by the creator, because a very healthy 50% reserve means that a 20k coin cashout won't take out too much capital. It's the fear of putting dollars, burgers, and development work into the ecosystem and having most of it sucked out by a few actors that has people screaming "ponzi".
Now, it's not Satoshi that I'm worried about - whoever Satoshi is would be smart enough to slowly and gradually sell off whatever coins they have to avoid affecting the price.
According to this article, the US FBI has the world's largest Bitcoin wallet: http://www.wired.com/wiredenterprise/2013/12/fbi_wallet/
About 1%, according to this list: http://bitcoinrichlist.com/top100
Keep in mind that while that $94 million number represents the worth of 1% of the outstanding coins, $94 million is a much higher percentage of the actual worth of the Bitcoin economy.
To disrupt Bitcoin, the U.S. government doesn't need to build supercomputers and run a 51% attack, or even try to attack it all. There's a good chance the FBI will sell the entire lot of seized coins at once, or within a short period. It's not like they care about market timing. Whether or not the Bitcoin economy is resilient to such an event depends on the amount of capital and confidence invested into the system at that time.
I wonder:
How much value (primarily foreign exchange reserves, some physical goods) is inside the Bitcoin economy? How much value (iPhones, oil exports, foreign reserves and so on) are in the U.S. Dollar economy? How do the exchangeable assets match up to the total market valuations for both currencies?
submitted by cayeno to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

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